Saturday, April 4, 2009

on the nature of God and sins

I am writing this in a response to an entry in my friend's blog which can be found here

This is the citation from my friend's writing which I would like to address:
"My point is this language allows wars, killings and the use of force to defend the dignity of the religion if threatened. God (not capitalized because it loses my respect) in both text is described as vengeful and destructive. Holy Bible describes god’s anger when he swept out the whole mankind except Noah. This is not justifiable for whatever grave sins human has committed (it is said that god is forgiveful BIG JOKE). Another example is Sodom and Gomorrah incineration (can be found in Quran text as well). I find this god’s character, if not followed, interpreted extensively by both religions. No wonder, it incites so much vengeful character in both congregations."

First of all, it is about the nature of God. The bible, as Christians accept today, consists of two major parts: the Old Testament and the New Testament. I have seen that many people tends to see that the "God" presented in the Old Testament and the "God" of the New Testament to be "two different gods", the basis of this is that, as mentioned in my friend's blog, someone could see the nature of God in the Old Testament to be vengeful, cruel, and so on and so forth. However, in the New Testament, it seems that we can see "a more plausible nature of God in term of His love towards humanities." Is this really the case? Are there really "two gods" in the bible? Of course the answer is no. There's only one true God and from the perspective of the completeness of the bible and of course with an assumption that God exists (note: the discussion the existence of God will be set aside first for now), I would like to present my argument from Christian's point of view.


How could we “reconcile” these two somewhat “contradicting” nature of God? The Bible should not and must not be interpreted parts by parts, rather as a whole. So, what is the whole Bible all about? The whole Bible only tells us one thing, from the beginning in the book of Genesis to the end in the book of Revelation, on the great redemptive plan that God has on humanities and the restoration of the Kingdom of God. The New Testament itself is the fulfillment of the Old Testament, the completion of God's great redemptive plan which is manifested through Jesus Christ that came down to earth, became human in order to bear all of our sins and iniquities.


We could start from the Old Testament first. In the Old Testament, the first covenant from God was given to Abraham (Genesis 22:17-18):
"I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."
This is the God's covenant to Abraham so that his descendants will be blessed (one of them is mentioned here is take possession of the cities of their enemies). God also made similar covenant with Isaac, and then Jacob which from him the 12 tribes of Israel were born.


In Exodus 19: 4-6, God’s purpose for Israel is mentioned:
“Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.”
Israel was chosen to be God’s treasured possession, kingdom of priests, and holy nation. God’s purpose in bringing Israel out of Egypt is that they would worship Him and become a holy nation for Him. Through them, His blessing should reach all the nations of the world. God also wanted to show through them to the other nations (which at that time still worship other gods such as Baal) that He is the one and only God, and no other gods beside Him. God helped Israel in their conquest of Canaan. This is also to fulfill God’s covenant to Abraham: “Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies.”


However, despite that all the greatness that God has shown to the people of Israel, the people of Israel kept turning away from Him and adore other gods. Israel has failed to fulfill the God’s given role: they failed to spread the Word of God to other nations, they failed to stay holy but rather they turned away to other gods.


God’s covenant with Abraham is then fulfilled through Jesus Christ, which is the “offspring [on which through Him] all nations on earth will be blessed." Thus, the final fulfillment of God’s redemptive plan was written inside the New Testament. I will now turn into answering the question on the problem of sins and then conclude the discussion on the nature of God:


Secondly, it is about the question, is it justifiable for God to, for example, swept the whole human kind in the story of Noah's flood? Perhaps we could start the discussion by defining “sin”. Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God (Westminster Shorter Catechism). God is holy and His divine holiness sets Him apart from us, it covers all aspects of His transcendent greatness and moral perfection, and is characteristic of all His attributes, pointing to the “Godness” of God at every point. Therefore, the core is that God’s purity cannot tolerate any form of sin. “For the wages of sin is death.” (Romans 6:23). One example on how God could not tolerate sin is shown in Numbers 15:32: “they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day” and the God ordered for that man to be put to death. Even to the chosen people of Israel, God could not tolerate sins. This shows how grave sin is in the eyes of God.


In the case of Noah, God has given the mankind the time of 120 years to repent, but none turned back to God and “that the every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (Genesis 5: 6). Only Noah and his family found to be righteous in His eyes and thus God flooded the earth and saved only Noah’s family. In order to answer the question on whether it is justifiable or not for God to do this, we need to understand the nature of sin itself which is totally intolerable for God which is holy.


These two points show the justice and love of God. God’s justice is shown by His intolerance against sins. God’s love is shown through His Son Jesus Christ which
“being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness” (Philippians 2: 6-7).
God’s intolerance against sins, all of His anger, was cast upon Jesus on the cross. Jesus bore all the consequences of our sins so “that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Quoting Heidelberg Catechism,
“God is indeed merciful, but also just; therefore his justice requires, that sin which is committed against the most high majesty of God, be also punished with extreme, that is, with everlasting punishment of body and soul, [and the only mediator is] Our Lord Jesus Christ.”

However, there's still one last question which perhaps remains. Could we understand God fully and thoroughly? Unfortunately for our own state, the answer is no. Why? If we could really understand God (in term of one-hundred-percent-certainty), what kind of God is that? Won't it be just a god that we created thus we can understand it very easily? But our mind is so much limited and could not (and will not in our current state) grasp God's fully. Adding to it, it's also because of all our logic and our mind has been polluted by sins, as Apostle Paul put it in Romans 3:23: "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".


Of course this short text would not be able to answer all of your questions, but it will be good if we have the heart to listen and learn from others. I am also learning and seeking for the truth, I am open for discussions and I would like to further hear other’s view on this matter as well :)

5 comments:

Sutayasa said...

His statement is a big joke to me, hahaha. If God were not forgiving (there is no 'forgiveful' word, btw), all of us should not even exist. (if he believes that God even exist).

My comment is limited to his quote though.

Suppose that we are in the same ground that God is exist and all those stories written in the bible are facts.

here is a simple example. We believe that God doesn't have any limitation of time based on our supposition before. God already knows what one will do even though one has not born. If he is not forgiving, why should he even give one a chance to live.

How to live one's life is one's free choice, that's why you have free thinker.

Johannes Ardiant Harlie said...

Yo Suta, good point

But perhaps his concern was on, why God, while He had given chances to the people of Sodom & Gomorrah to live, but in the end He annihilated all of them. That's why I tried to answer this from the nature of sins itself

Agreed with your last statement, in the end it depends on our own free will to decide how to live..

cruxgemmata said...

yo suta... You are a big joke. Not only that you dont understand the point i wrote, but also rebut the wrong assumption with wrong arguments. In a very plain and straightforward word, Naive (and thanks for your correction on the word forgiveful, that is the very essence of paying attention!!)

"God already knows what one will do even though one has not born (been born, it s passive sentence). If he is not forgiving, why should he even give one a chance to live."

That is similar to saying that if god is not forgiving, then he will execute humans even before they live? You god draws a line of forgiving and not forgiving nature by death penalty? Even the most unforgiving human does not (in civilized nations) impose death penalty (in case you dont know death penalty is abolished in more than half nations in the world and only tolerable under ICCPR for extreme cases)

Yes one's life is one's free choice and you have interfered my free choice by convicting me as sinner simply because i do not believe and accept your path of salvation through jesus!

cruxgemmata said...

and suta dude, so that you understand my point clearer (if and only if you are academically interested), read my blog fully. The bloodiest mistake of naive people is to read one quote without context. Oh, is it not what Christianity has been trying to teach you all the time? read old testament and new testament all together because they are complimentary to each other and dont quote them without context?

Sutayasa said...

Hi Harjo,

Greetings there. Happy to meet you directly even only through comments :)

I just want to clarify things that you might not get from writing. I didn't have any intention at all to make an argument against you.

I clearly stated that it's just limited to the quote. If I want to direct my words to you and all of your writing and not to a part of the statement that you wrote, I would go directly to your blog and did it. Yet, it's not my intention to do so nor I have any bad sentiment with you.

I believe that because I am a sinner, I need Jesus as my savior. None of the people on earth is free from sin, we´re all sinner.

Free thinker that I mentioned before refers to one of the so called ´religion´in Singapore, the place where I and Jo live in. I believe judging them to go to hell is not different than doubting God´s ability to save people also, so I never dare to do so, let alone convicting you as a sinner

The tricky thing about free choice is that if everyone has free choice, none of the free choice will be free anymore because everyone live in the same, limited, and interrelating world. One´s free choice will always be interfering with another´s free choice and one good thing that can help us to solve that problem is to live together peacefully.

I am sorry if my statement offended you. However, I believe you did not read my comment in the context I have also.

One thing for sure, if everyone understands everyone´s contexts for every statement one say, there wouldn´t be misunderstanding in this world.

Please don't be too emotional. I agree with you about the statement "The bloodiest mistake of naive people is to read one quote without context." but I should say that attacking the person that say the quotation after doing that is even the bloodier mistake, which is exactly what I don't want neither myself nor you to do.

A laugh can have a lot of meaning such as appreciating, demeaning, fooling, etc. Rest assured that I never intended to demean you, Harjo.

Anyway, I am quite a joker though, hehehe.

Out of curiosity, are you studying in FH UI? I have a lot of friends there.